Welsh Warrington
If we go back in time about 1200 years to around 800AD, one of the languages spoken in the Warrington area would have been Welsh. To be precise, the language would have been an earlier form of Welsh, called Old Welsh, or possibly even a dialect related to Old Welsh, called Cumbric. There is no doubt that dialects of Old English were also spoken in the area, and Danish dialects of Old Norse would have also been heard more and more as the Vikings took over more land to the north-east, but from the River Mersey all the way up to Southern Scotland some form of Welsh dialect would have been spoken. Indeed, the entry for Warrington in Domesday comes under the name "Walintune", which many scholars believe is the Old English name meaning roughly "the settlement of the Welsh".
I was surprised to find out a few years ago that my maternal ancestors are in fact from South Wales, and Warrington's close proximity to the Welsh border, and its position as the crossing point of the Mersey, must have made it a natural stop-off point for Welsh people moving North for whatever reason.
Surprisingly little is left of the language and/or dialects from this time. In fact, the clearest clue to the Old Welsh or Cumbric dialect spoken at that time is the name of my old stomping ground "Penketh". The name is made up of two elements, both Welsh/Cumbric words:
- Pen(n) - meaning a hill
- Keth (originally spelled "coed") - meaning a wood
Both "pen" and "coed" are still present in the modern Welsh language. There is, in fact, a village called "Pencoed" in south Wales near to Bridgend. Other places in Wales contain the "pen" element and probably the most famous place containing "coed" is "Betws-y-Coed" in Clwyd, North Wales, which means "Prayer house in the wood".
Other than a few place names, there is virtually no sign of the Welsh/Cumbric language and dialects.
Or is there?
Do you know any Warrington words, phrases or sayings that contain Welsh words?
Is "Mam" Welsh?
ReplyDeleteIndeed it is!
DeleteCould it be the source of our use of the word "mam" for mum?
I'll try to find out more :-)
I think so(and I hope so!).
DeleteDerbyshire is a lovely part of the country,full of contrasting scenery. One of our favourite walks includes a peak named Mam Tor(mother hill). Its frequent landslides form small hillocks around its base,hence Mam Tor.
So a maternal link is there somewhere :-)
Absolutely!
DeleteAnd it just goes to show the Celtic history of the area. The names of natural features are often the most ancient for the simple reason that they have been there since the first peoples came to the islands.
Mam Tor is a truly Celtic name. A quick search on Wikipedia reveals that there is a late Bronze Age/early Iron Age hill fort surrounding the summit. "Hill fort" is a bit of a misnomer and has been rethought by archaeologists over the past few years. The name suggests that it would have been used solely in a military context, but examinations of many hill forts across Britain has revealed that they were used as symbol of wealth and power, and that they also provided protection for inhabitants.
Radiocarbon dating suggests occupation from around 1200BC. And the burial mounds and other signs of habitation on the peak of Mam Tor speak of it being a rather special place to the Bronze Age people who lived there.
These people would have spoken a Celtic language from which the Old Welsh and Cumbric would have eventually developed. Maybe they gave the hill its name and it stuck, or maybe it was named by later people. Either way, it is Celtic in origin and, as you say, quite fitting in its role as the mother; the life giver.
Its all very interesting. Another name that comes to mind is Hen Cloud. A lot of gritstone and very craggy. It must be ancient.
DeleteI dont know why but I always think "ta ra" sounds Welsh.
Hen Cloud is a very interesting name and it is in fact a mixture of Old Welsh and Old English.
Delete"Hen" is Welsh and means "Old". "Cloud" is a little more cryptic until you look at the etymology of the word. Cloud is from the Old English word "clúd" that means a mass of rock. There are many words in the other Germanic languages that have similar spellings and similar meanings.
So Hen Cloud is exactly as you suggested, "Old Rock" - ancient :-)
I am not so sure about "Ta ra" being Welsh. I think it is more likely to be of Old Norse descent.
I think the "Ta" is from the Old Norse verb "taka", which means "to take". The "Ra" bit could be related to any number of Old Norse words, such as: running, a trail, drive away, and also the Old Norse word for a sail yard, which is the cross beam on a ship's mast that the sails are attached to.
All these words have the element of leaving or moving away and that makes me think that together "ta" and "ra" might be an Old Norse phrase that means something along the lines of "Off we go" or similar.
It is just a vague theory and admittedly needs a lot more research, but that's all part of the fun!
Hiya Wirelector. All seem possible. I dont think it sounds vague at all,a definite link I think.
DeleteTa ra is'nt mentioned in a welsh dictionary we have,but I did find Tra (adv over).